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Nov 12, 2012
11/12
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MSNBC
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i think you heard john boehner say that already. we've had votes in the senate where we've actually gotten rid of tax credits. i think that's a given. and i think the vast majority of americans agree with that. the question is how do you do that and how do you allow taxes to rise at the same time you fix the real problem? and the real problem is uncontrolled entitlement spending and a government that has grown massively. not just under this administration, under republican administration. >> let me turn to senator schumer on this point. >> so you have to approach both sides of it. >> let me turn to senator schumer. i'm going to ask you the same question. if the mandate is compromised, what do democrats have to be prepared to accept as a painful outcome in order to achieve compromise? >> well, i agree with you, the mandate is compromise. that's why we have a divided house and senate. and i think if the house stands for anything it's cut government spending, as tom coburn said, and i think we're going to have to do more of it. we hear
i think you heard john boehner say that already. we've had votes in the senate where we've actually gotten rid of tax credits. i think that's a given. and i think the vast majority of americans agree with that. the question is how do you do that and how do you allow taxes to rise at the same time you fix the real problem? and the real problem is uncontrolled entitlement spending and a government that has grown massively. not just under this administration, under republican administration....
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Nov 17, 2012
11/12
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KNTV
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house speaker john boehner says he thinks they will have a solution before the end of the year. >>> and there are new details about the woman, jill kelley, at the center of the scandal that brought down general petraeus. as nbc's andrea mitchell reports jill kelley's connections went beyond the social elite and tampa, all the way to the white house. >> reporter: jill kelley and her twin sister met at the white house, touring it on november fourth with their families, two days before general james clapper, the director of national intelligence was even told about the petraeus scandal. jill kelley mentioned the visit in an e-mail, saying i was at the white house with my friends in the administration this weekend. the stress was surreal. white house officials say the kelley sisters were invited by a staffer who may have met at the air force base. jill kelley was bipartisan in her outreach, she and her sister dropped in on a fundraiser for marco rubio two years ago. they did not pay, sources said, just arrived and soon left. in an e-mail last march, jill kelley said she was trying to carryi
house speaker john boehner says he thinks they will have a solution before the end of the year. >>> and there are new details about the woman, jill kelley, at the center of the scandal that brought down general petraeus. as nbc's andrea mitchell reports jill kelley's connections went beyond the social elite and tampa, all the way to the white house. >> reporter: jill kelley and her twin sister met at the white house, touring it on november fourth with their families, two days...
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Nov 12, 2012
11/12
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MSNBC
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boehner and his supposed mandate right now? >> well, i think that he said that the election would be a mandate, it was, and he lost. and i think that the important point about the crystal comment is that there's now a wedge in the republican party that the president needs to exploit. there's a wedge between the realist wing and the kind of fa fantasy, childish wing. the realist wing understands the president has a mandate. democrats won the presidency and the senate. we won a majority -- we won the popular vote if you add up the house races as well. look, i think it's in both parties' interest to avoid the fiscal cliff. neither of them want it for a whole host of reasons, including it will be damaging to the economy. we learned recently that president obama in august of 2011 was kind of ready to do a nixon goes to china moment on entitlements and i think that's still on the table. have real entitlement reform. on taxes it's as bill clinton said. it's simple math. spending is at 24% of gdp. taxes are at about 15% of gdp right no
boehner and his supposed mandate right now? >> well, i think that he said that the election would be a mandate, it was, and he lost. and i think that the important point about the crystal comment is that there's now a wedge in the republican party that the president needs to exploit. there's a wedge between the realist wing and the kind of fa fantasy, childish wing. the realist wing understands the president has a mandate. democrats won the presidency and the senate. we won a majority --...
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Nov 14, 2012
11/12
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MSNBCW
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boehner and mcconnell still in charge. although they did better and you could argue there's no reason. are you surprised there's not a push to change leaders inside your party even if it's just the face of the party a little bit? >> it's difficult. within the house there is -- i think there will be a battle for the conference chair. >> but it's a -- >> i'm surprised, yeah, but at the same time, we need strong leadership and a strong speaker and i think boehner can do a good job -- >> looks like he's going to get more political leeway. he doesn't have eric cantor. it seems like there's for trust between the two but, jackie, if the american people had known they not only were re-electing status quo but the same people are in the room that gave us the gridlock, i wonder how that ballot would have turned out. >> i wonder if he said it's going to be the same people in the room, and, you know, a lot of this is going to be theater. we were talking about that for the first couple of days, hopefully not weeks but there will be a lo
boehner and mcconnell still in charge. although they did better and you could argue there's no reason. are you surprised there's not a push to change leaders inside your party even if it's just the face of the party a little bit? >> it's difficult. within the house there is -- i think there will be a battle for the conference chair. >> but it's a -- >> i'm surprised, yeah, but at the same time, we need strong leadership and a strong speaker and i think boehner can do a good...
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Nov 13, 2012
11/12
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CNBC
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there are -- boehner says down payment now. buy the boehner down payment zbh i don't like the down payment. i would be sorely disappointed if we missed this opportunity. i think somebody was telling me today the budget act of 1990 took 12 days to put in place. we know what all the issues are. i hope we won't be lacking courage just to go ahead and deal with big pieces of this. so -- i am in a different place than you on this. i think we ought to deal a -- in a big way with the fiscal reform. >> you want to grant design. that's very -- interesting point of view. >> doesn't have to be grand. we play to take two bites at it, debt ceiling coming up which i think, by the way, debt ceiling is the more important day personally than the fiscal cliff issue because we are not fiscal cliff is not going to happen. okay. simply is not going to happen. so -- to me, the focus ought to be on solvency and if we can deal with that and take a big step out of that, big step towards solving that, during this december, i agree with you. i think the
there are -- boehner says down payment now. buy the boehner down payment zbh i don't like the down payment. i would be sorely disappointed if we missed this opportunity. i think somebody was telling me today the budget act of 1990 took 12 days to put in place. we know what all the issues are. i hope we won't be lacking courage just to go ahead and deal with big pieces of this. so -- i am in a different place than you on this. i think we ought to deal a -- in a big way with the fiscal reform....
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Nov 16, 2012
11/12
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WJLA
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nancy pelosi and john boehner met with the president this morning. with six weeks left to go, work has to be done quickly. rebecca is live with more on the talks. >> the calendar is showing it is just a few weeks until we fall off the so-called fiscal cliff. that is when extended unemployment benefits will expire, tax cuts will expire, and the automatic spending cuts will go into effect. today congressional leaders were promising they would meet the deadline. >> inside the white house republican house speaker john boehner and president obama sat side by side both insisting they want and will find macdill. >> our challenge is to make sure that we are able to cooperate, work together, find common ground, make some tough compromises, build some consensus to do the people's business. >> coming out of the meeting are rare image of bipartisan ship. >> we have the recognition that every person in america knows we would not reach agreement. >> we are prepared to put everything on the table provided we fixed the problem. however, we are in the dilemma we are
nancy pelosi and john boehner met with the president this morning. with six weeks left to go, work has to be done quickly. rebecca is live with more on the talks. >> the calendar is showing it is just a few weeks until we fall off the so-called fiscal cliff. that is when extended unemployment benefits will expire, tax cuts will expire, and the automatic spending cuts will go into effect. today congressional leaders were promising they would meet the deadline. >> inside the white...
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Nov 13, 2012
11/12
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MSNBCW
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you have speaker boehner saying, let's get compromise. this is the time to bring that debt down. we seriously have to do it. i don't think anyone disputes that, but it has to be a mix of spending cuts and the revenue. and the one figure that i'd like to add here is how much revenue we get by just going back to the clinton levels at $250,000 and above. that's $700 billion in tenures. that's what draws people to that number when you add that in and then close some loopholes and subsidies and do the budget cuts, we have already done a trillion. you can get to the $4 trillion that most economists say would at least lead us to the path to reduce debt over ten years. >> because it is so much money and because it would be so relatively painless for people who have income above $250,000 to see that change go back, because bill crystal is saying this now, because the president is clear that's what he's running on, it feels that's clear that's within the realm of the possible. but what else didn't previously peel like it was in the realm of possible? >> i think immigration reform. i called
you have speaker boehner saying, let's get compromise. this is the time to bring that debt down. we seriously have to do it. i don't think anyone disputes that, but it has to be a mix of spending cuts and the revenue. and the one figure that i'd like to add here is how much revenue we get by just going back to the clinton levels at $250,000 and above. that's $700 billion in tenures. that's what draws people to that number when you add that in and then close some loopholes and subsidies and do...
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Nov 12, 2012
11/12
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CSPAN
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boehner does not. he can't get all of his people, he will have to go farther to the left than haster would have to get the same number of votes. >> the democratic caucus is more uniform in terms of its politics. there is less separating the most conservative and liberal democrat than they were even four years ago. i think that will be a challenge. certainly the democrats if they chose to wield power in pretty much the only way they can in the minority party, to not cooperate. the number of times that kevin mccarth he to go to the minority whip to say we need 30 democrats or this many to pass the debt ceiling or these short-term appropriations bills. you know the democrats were remarkably amenable to providing cover for the republican majority. if they truly wanted to wield power they would figure out a way to get something out of that. >> i will ask one more question which goes to the same dynamic. we were talk backstage about the results and what the freshman says where the center lies in this year's
boehner does not. he can't get all of his people, he will have to go farther to the left than haster would have to get the same number of votes. >> the democratic caucus is more uniform in terms of its politics. there is less separating the most conservative and liberal democrat than they were even four years ago. i think that will be a challenge. certainly the democrats if they chose to wield power in pretty much the only way they can in the minority party, to not cooperate. the number...
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Nov 15, 2012
11/12
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that's going to stay john boehner. they're actually fighting for the number four job in the house. the contest was tom price against one of the precious few republican women in the house, cathy mcmorris rodgers. and there were some interesting politics at work here. miss mcmorris rodgers had the support of speaker john boehner, but tom price had the support of this guy, the republican party's vice presidential nominee, paul ryan. in the end, it was cathy mcmorris rodgers who won. paul ryan's guy lost. and so even as they lose the presidency, thanks to a devastating gender gap in the polls, and at the same time they send even fewer republican women to congress than were there before, republicans did today pick for this small, low-profile national republican number four leadership role an actual woman. and that's the best they've ever done. that's the highest ranking gop woman there has ever been in the house. back over on the senate side, republicans are faced with a dilemma set up for them by john mccain, as i was just discussing with bill burton. john mccain is suggesting that the
that's going to stay john boehner. they're actually fighting for the number four job in the house. the contest was tom price against one of the precious few republican women in the house, cathy mcmorris rodgers. and there were some interesting politics at work here. miss mcmorris rodgers had the support of speaker john boehner, but tom price had the support of this guy, the republican party's vice presidential nominee, paul ryan. in the end, it was cathy mcmorris rodgers who won. paul ryan's...
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Nov 18, 2012
11/12
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FOXNEWS
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you know, when john boehner appears, they say are you willing to accept higher rates. no one says what are you going to do about entitlements or anything, there's no question of the president whether he will compromise and what that would look like. >> paul: steve, what do you think the republicans ought to do here? is there a way out for them or are they going to be pushed back into a corner where they have no choice, but to concede that they have to raise tax rates or else go over the cliff and get blamed for that? >> well, it's a tough situation for them. there's no question about it because as you know, the default position, if we don't do anything is for the taxes to go up on everybody on january 1st, and that's something i think both sides want to avoid. it's very interesting, the thing that happened this week to start the week, was who was the first person that barack obama met with in the white house since his election, the labor unions, the labor block, that tells a lot who is driving policy at least at the start of the second term? and the labor unions basica
you know, when john boehner appears, they say are you willing to accept higher rates. no one says what are you going to do about entitlements or anything, there's no question of the president whether he will compromise and what that would look like. >> paul: steve, what do you think the republicans ought to do here? is there a way out for them or are they going to be pushed back into a corner where they have no choice, but to concede that they have to raise tax rates or else go over the...
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Nov 12, 2012
11/12
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and speaker john boehner's getting in on the love. >> 2013 should be the year to begin to solve our debt through tax reform and entitlement reform. this framework can lead to common ground. because if there was a mandate in this election, it was a mandate to work together to do what's in the best interest of our country. >> but any fundamental reform is going to require republicans to break their signed pledge against raising taxes. we'll discuss that next on "now." hungry for the best? it's eb. want to give your family the very best in taste, freshness, and nutrition? it's eb. want to give them more vitamins, omega 3s, and less saturated fat? it's eb. eggland's best eggs. eb's. the only eggs that make better taste and better nutrition... easy. eggland's best eggs. better taste. better nutrition. better eggs. it's eb. >>> let's have a serious debate. don't scream and yell. you know what, it won't kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires. it really won't, i don't think. i don't see why republicans don't take obama's offer to freeze taxes for everyone below $250,000,
and speaker john boehner's getting in on the love. >> 2013 should be the year to begin to solve our debt through tax reform and entitlement reform. this framework can lead to common ground. because if there was a mandate in this election, it was a mandate to work together to do what's in the best interest of our country. >> but any fundamental reform is going to require republicans to break their signed pledge against raising taxes. we'll discuss that next on "now." hungry...
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Nov 12, 2012
11/12
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MSNBC
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the question is, this is -- i think a lot of it is on john boehner and mitch mcconnell. can they say to the base of the party, we need to make this deal. it is good for us politically. it is good for the country policy wise, and we need to move on, or do the grovers of the world win out? >> david, thank you very much. chris cillizza. coming up, more fallout from the david petraeus situation. we'll talking to david ignatius. hey sis, it's so great to see you. you, too! oh, cloudy glasses. you didn't have to come over! actually, honey, i think i did... oh? you did? whoa, ladies, easy. hi. cascade kitchen counselor. we can help avoid this with cascade complete pacs. over time, the other premium pac can leave cloudy, hard water deposits, but cascade complete pacs help leave glasses sparkling. shiny! too bad it doesn't work on windows. okay, i'm outta here. more dishwasher brands in north america recommend cascade. in north america is bigger than we think ... sometimelike the flu.fer from with aches, fever and chills- the flu's a really big deal. so why treat it like it's a l
the question is, this is -- i think a lot of it is on john boehner and mitch mcconnell. can they say to the base of the party, we need to make this deal. it is good for us politically. it is good for the country policy wise, and we need to move on, or do the grovers of the world win out? >> david, thank you very much. chris cillizza. coming up, more fallout from the david petraeus situation. we'll talking to david ignatius. hey sis, it's so great to see you. you, too! oh, cloudy glasses....
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Nov 13, 2012
11/12
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FOXNEWS
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speaker boehner says revenues are on the table but we have news for him, when it comes to hiking the taxes, democrats do plan to run the table reportedly not keen on a republican plan to only close loopholes that curb deductions to raise revenue. and democratic leaders expect that and a rate increase, a move that could conceivably send the top rate closer to 45 percent tan the 40 percent they talking about now. when you throw in added surtaxes to pay for health care, the "wall street journal" reporter says you could be look at 50 percent top rate. or more. here we go. >>reporter: that is true if the live in the state of california or someone like you would works, why know if you live in new york but you work in w york and the tax rates in new york city could go do 50 percent and california as high as 52 percent, we have not seen rates that high since the 1970's. >>neil: leave aside what will happen on health care people forget this is a lot more than just returning to the clinton top rate of 39.6 percent. it is about going well beyond that and the fact that democrats are feeling thei
speaker boehner says revenues are on the table but we have news for him, when it comes to hiking the taxes, democrats do plan to run the table reportedly not keen on a republican plan to only close loopholes that curb deductions to raise revenue. and democratic leaders expect that and a rate increase, a move that could conceivably send the top rate closer to 45 percent tan the 40 percent they talking about now. when you throw in added surtaxes to pay for health care, the "wall street...
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Nov 12, 2012
11/12
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WJLA
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is sticking by the campaign trail thopets have tax cuts making less than $250,000 and you have john boehner saying somewhat saying we don't want to have any tax increases at all. so the pressure is on republicans to budge somewhat and you're going to see the question over the next couple of weeks is how do you see what form does that take. >> what other lessons or headlines do you think we got out of this year's election? >> the next washington you see is going to look a lot like the last washington you saw. you're going to have a democratic white house a democratic senate and republican house. so the question is how much more gridlock are we likely to see? you're probably going to see more gridlock in washington but voters may say we're sick and tired >> and i guess it's kind of appropriate that the new bond film came out this past weekend because the nation's top spy went down as a result of an affair. david petraeus. does it seem as if we have just gotten to the surface of this scandal here? >> there's so many unanswered questions as relates to david petraeus? why did congressional offic
is sticking by the campaign trail thopets have tax cuts making less than $250,000 and you have john boehner saying somewhat saying we don't want to have any tax increases at all. so the pressure is on republicans to budge somewhat and you're going to see the question over the next couple of weeks is how do you see what form does that take. >> what other lessons or headlines do you think we got out of this year's election? >> the next washington you see is going to look a lot like...
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Nov 15, 2012
11/12
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MSNBCW
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boehner had agreed to $800 billion. it's not hard to find $1.2 trillion as a kind of middle ground to that. then you want to have $4 trillion of total deficit reduction, so that leaves $2.8 trillion of spending reductions that have to happen. here's what people miss. we can avoid going over the cliff with the stroke of a pen. they can just extend all this stuff and kick the can down the road. the real question is are we going to have a big deal? are we going to agree on the major spending restraints that we need as well as the tax stuff in order to actually get the deficit under control? and i think the betting on that is less than 50%. i think we have a great shot at it. but it's going to be really, really hard. >> is that the view from wall street, too? they're not totally confident that this is going to happen? >> what you see in the stock market at the moment is that wall street is not totally confident. that's for sure. >> all right. steve, thanks so much. >> pleasure. >>> coming up, independent senator-elect of ma
boehner had agreed to $800 billion. it's not hard to find $1.2 trillion as a kind of middle ground to that. then you want to have $4 trillion of total deficit reduction, so that leaves $2.8 trillion of spending reductions that have to happen. here's what people miss. we can avoid going over the cliff with the stroke of a pen. they can just extend all this stuff and kick the can down the road. the real question is are we going to have a big deal? are we going to agree on the major spending...
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Nov 12, 2012
11/12
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KOFY
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. >> speaker boehner told republican members they would have to avoid fights. according to the "new york times" they seemed to listen but it doesn't change the basic disagreement that could push the country off the fiscal cliff the 1st of january. that is when tax cuts expire the average family will pay an extra $3700 a year. and severe cuts in defense spending will be triggered. sticking point, taxes. the president won on letting tax cuts for the rich expire. leading republican said, no. if it sounds like the argument we already heard, you are right. democrats appear emboldened. >> if the republicans will not agree with that, we will reach a point at the end of this year where all the tax cuts expire and we'll start over next year. >> the two sides have four more days to lay out their markers. on friday they come to the white house to start negotiations. >> ama: weather, it's been nice out but just chilly. >> i think the clouds that are sitting off the coast will help to warm us up. let's take a live look from vollmer peak cam looking down to the bay bridge. y
. >> speaker boehner told republican members they would have to avoid fights. according to the "new york times" they seemed to listen but it doesn't change the basic disagreement that could push the country off the fiscal cliff the 1st of january. that is when tax cuts expire the average family will pay an extra $3700 a year. and severe cuts in defense spending will be triggered. sticking point, taxes. the president won on letting tax cuts for the rich expire. leading republican...
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Nov 16, 2012
11/12
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WUSA
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. >> reporter: in the meeting, house speaker john boehner proposed leaders establish a framework in the next six weeks for wide scale reform of the tax code, medicare, and social security in 2013. the goal would be to set specific targets now for savings from those reforms. that would negate the need for steep spending cuts congress called for last year that are set to kick in on january 1, the same day the bush tax cuts are set to expire. that damaging combo has been come to be known as the fiscal cliff. while democrats often balling at any mention of entitlement reform, today nancy pelosi signaled a new openness. >> do we want to have savings from everything that we do? certainly? so we need revenue, we need savings, we need growth. >> reporter: leader pelosi said there appeared to be interest in a big deal, about four trillion dollars worth of deficit redictions along the lines of the grand bargain that fell apart wean the president and speaker boehner last year, anthony. >> mason: nancy, there are just 46 days until the new year. what can they really hope to accomplish in that time?
. >> reporter: in the meeting, house speaker john boehner proposed leaders establish a framework in the next six weeks for wide scale reform of the tax code, medicare, and social security in 2013. the goal would be to set specific targets now for savings from those reforms. that would negate the need for steep spending cuts congress called for last year that are set to kick in on january 1, the same day the bush tax cuts are set to expire. that damaging combo has been come to be known as...
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Nov 16, 2012
11/12
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MSNBCW
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the most interesting thing, though, from the boehner aide was that john boehner believes there is not enough time from now until the end of the year to actually have a grand bargain. there's enough time, though, to put together the framework for what a grand bargain would look like. essentially have the top lines agreed to that by sometime in 2013 you could have both the chambers, the senate and the house, come together on some substantial tax reform, entitlement reform, and get rid of the sort of automatic cuts that we see as a sequester, and the tax increases and have a mechanism you can replace them with. listen to the congressional leaders in their photo op in the white house before thanksgiving that they had today. >> we've put revenue on the table, as long as it's accompanied by significant spending cuts. >> we have a cornerstones of being able to work something out. we're both going to have to give up some of the things that we know are a problem. >> we should have a goal in terms of how much deficit reduction. we should have a deadline before christmas. >> we fully understand
the most interesting thing, though, from the boehner aide was that john boehner believes there is not enough time from now until the end of the year to actually have a grand bargain. there's enough time, though, to put together the framework for what a grand bargain would look like. essentially have the top lines agreed to that by sometime in 2013 you could have both the chambers, the senate and the house, come together on some substantial tax reform, entitlement reform, and get rid of the sort...
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Nov 13, 2012
11/12
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MSNBC
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let's face it, the two most important people in this right now are the president and speaker boehner. i mean they are the most important players as to whether we get a result. secondly, i've said from day one, i've been saying it for two years, the most important piece of this, andrea, really is medicare because as you look at glen hubbard, as you look at others talking about all these things, the two are intertwined. in other words, as we see true medicare reforms and you see a real solution to medicare, where people know that we've put this behind us and we've dealt with it, i think you see the dial change as it relates to revenue. so, you know, i've been discussing revenues now for at least two years. i do think republicans are open to revenues that are put in place and a pro growth way, but i think people want to see that we've actually dealt with the problem. we haven't generated more revenues without solving the fundamental problems we have and we have what we want to do is put ourselves on a path towards fiscal solvency. i think the key here really is, medicare and to the exten
let's face it, the two most important people in this right now are the president and speaker boehner. i mean they are the most important players as to whether we get a result. secondly, i've said from day one, i've been saying it for two years, the most important piece of this, andrea, really is medicare because as you look at glen hubbard, as you look at others talking about all these things, the two are intertwined. in other words, as we see true medicare reforms and you see a real solution...
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Nov 18, 2012
11/12
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MSNBCW
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. >> there is agreement all around that boehner wants a deal. the speaker wants a deal, but he cannot sell a deal, even with the goodwill that he thinks he and the president have on that right now, unless there is real graham ruddman type, real requirements, that these things go in simultaneously. and that's what jim baker wrote about recently, who's had that experience, of fashioning exactly that kind of deal. >> it's important, though, that -- >> you have to cut spending in the future. >> you can raise taxes with one congress. but it takes five congresses to cut spending. >> it's important to keep the focus on growth. not taxes, not spending cuts. you know, the goal here is to get our growth from, you know, one plus percent, up to three and four percent. if we don't get growth going, none of this will matter at all. it's really important as the president frames this that he frames it as growth, and therefore i need this tax increase for these people. this kind of spending cuts here. because it will leverage this kind of growth. >> but that's n
. >> there is agreement all around that boehner wants a deal. the speaker wants a deal, but he cannot sell a deal, even with the goodwill that he thinks he and the president have on that right now, unless there is real graham ruddman type, real requirements, that these things go in simultaneously. and that's what jim baker wrote about recently, who's had that experience, of fashioning exactly that kind of deal. >> it's important, though, that -- >> you have to cut spending in...
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Nov 19, 2012
11/12
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MSNBCW
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you see what nancy pelosi said, what john boehner has been saying. then you go back to the president's press conference taking a pretty tough decisive tone on susan rice and then you look at what's happening and also his position on the tax increases. take all of that together, it looks like more of the same. do you sense and from your reporting are we just having people circle each other or are their feet in stone? >> i think there's still some areas where people can get to the right place. the two things i keep thinking about is the business community, i think, what steve says is exactly right. it seems like from the outside, what they want more than anything is certainty. it's not just moment to moment. it's minute to minute. it's crisis to crisis. and that is an atmosphere that's not conclusive towards optimal economic activity. this notion of trying to get to long-term stability but not having short-term austerity measures would be too depressed on consumer activity seems like where we need to end up and a lot of pressure from republicans to the
you see what nancy pelosi said, what john boehner has been saying. then you go back to the president's press conference taking a pretty tough decisive tone on susan rice and then you look at what's happening and also his position on the tax increases. take all of that together, it looks like more of the same. do you sense and from your reporting are we just having people circle each other or are their feet in stone? >> i think there's still some areas where people can get to the right...